Joachim Raff: The Raff Forums archived message thread

Volker Tosta

25/7/2002

Subject: Raff Scores

Message:
Hello,

as some of you may know I am publishing music by Raff (as a part-time business) for about seven years now. Some recent performances / recordings couldn't have been done without these editions. Currently, I am finishing score, vocal score, and parts of Raff's lyrical opera "Benedetto Marcello (Art and Love)" which will have its world premiere this fall in a concert version.
Although I begin to get appreciation and interest for my edition I know, that it will take more than a life time to have a complete Raff available in modern and reliable prints. It is true that most of Raff's works have been printed during his life time but still there are problems today localizing score of some of his works and have them available in a condition that professional players are willing to use. As a recent example, Raff's suite op. 200 dropped from a concert in Bad Urach because the organizer could not get hold of usable copy of the parts (there may be other reasons as well).
Wouldn't it be great if the Raff society starts to localize, collect, store, and make available Raff's scores to performers world-wide? I know that other musical societies offer this kind of service. As a first step we could expand the catalog of works on this site with references to the availability of the scores. I would volunteer to pass a list of what is available in the Stuttgart State Library where there is a large collection of Raff's piano music.

Kind regards,
Volker

John Boyer

26/7/2002

RE: Raff Scores
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Message:
This is a fine idea. But are you suggesting that we simply note what is available at our local libraries, or that we make copies of these old scores for a central repository, to be administered by the society?

On a side note, I'm curious about the stated reason for dropping the Suite. In this day of scanners and photocopiers, if you have a score, you can whip up a set of parts with minimal effort.

John Boyer

26/7/2002

RE: Raff Scores
IP: Logged

Message:
This is a fine idea. But are you suggesting that we simply note what is available at our local libraries, or that we make copies of these old scores for a central repository, to be administered by the society?

On a side note, I'm curious about the stated reason for dropping the Suite. In this day of scanners and photocopiers, if you have a score, you can whip up a set of parts with minimal effort.

Mark

27/7/2002

RE: Raff Scores
IP: Logged

Message:
Yes, a great idea Volker.

Of course, I'd be happy to expand the web site to accomodate information on the wherabouts and availability of scores - on of my most frequent email enquiries is from potential performers tying to track down parts.

As a first step perhaps we could contact the libraries and orchestras in our respective countries to see what they have available. Some have searchable catalogues on the web. Obviously Germany will be the largest potential source, but I'll get in touch with the UK organisations once I get back from holiday. Maybe John or Jaimie could try the US sources like the Fliescher collection in Philadelphia, the New York Public Library and the older orchestras. I already have a list of the sizeable collection held by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.

It would be useful to know, of course, whether they have a short score, a full set of parts, what condition the material is in and, crucially, how copies may be obtained (xerox, microfiche etc) and at what cost.

In theory I'm also all for the physical collection of material too - but I want to give it more thought...

Cheers

Jamie

28/7/2002

RE: Raff Scores
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Message:
I agree with John and Mark that Volker's suggestion is a great idea. l know the NY Public Library has a voluminous collection of Raff scores as l have seen them myself, though l haven't been there in at least 10 years. l recall seeing the scores of all 11 symphonies, the piano concerto, the Thuringian Suite, and even the Weltende oratorio there. l'm sure the Edwin Fleischer collection must also contain a large repository of Raff scores, though l found their website difficult to search. l remember one recording, possibly the piano concerto played by Frank Cooper, where the liner notes credited the Fleischer collection for providing the score. BTW, Volker, l plan to purchase the Benedetto Marcello scores when they become available, even though l doubt l'll ever hear it performed. Perhaps l shouldn't be so pessimistic. After all, l despaired of ever hearing any Raff symphony other than "Im Walde" or "Lenore" after being tantalized by their scores, then lo and behold, Marco Polo recorded all of them.

Volker Tosta

29/7/2002

RE: Raff Scores
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Message:
Hello Jamie,

you shouldn't be too pessimistic about "Benedetto".
The performance will be taped by SWR radio and there is a good chance that it will be broadcast a few months later. I will certainly record this and trasnfer it to CD. Also, Capriccio Records, have published many recordings from the Bad Urach festival in the past (like operas from Spohr, Abert, and Nessler), so there is some chance as well that they will issue it one or two years after the performance.
BTW, the "Benedetto" ouverture has already bee recorded as part of the Stadlmair series (as well as the ouvertüre to "Die Parole"). They are also interested in recording the "King Alfred" ouverture, just waiting for me to edit it.

Cordially,
Volker

Eric Schissel

15/11/2002

RE: Raff Scores
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Message:
Quite right about NYPL I think- they also have a good selection of the chamber music as well, I know I've looked at two or three of the string quartets and the sextet there. (They also have been picking up the Nordstern edition, memory serves.) I believe they lost their original score of the piano quintet as of the last time I asked for it, regrettably, though it may have turned up as they moved (from and back to their Lincoln Center location over the last few years)- that sometimes happens, and I know the last time I asked them was before then. (My favorite of Raff's chamber works; I hope MDG does not too long delay in releasing that recording.)

John Boyer

30/1/2003

RE: Raff Scores
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During the search for the original (Siegel) edition of the Raff 1st Violin Concerto, was any attempt made to contact the collections of the Boston or New York Public Libraries?

Mark

10/2/2003

RE: Raff Scores
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Sorry that I missed this post, John.

The answer is yes, apparantly. AFAIK it was a VERY exhaustive search on both sides of the Atlantic. I think that we can say that the orchestral version is lost, though the piano/violin reduction which Raff made is around. Fancy doing a Cooke or Payne?

John Boyer

11/2/2003

RE: Raff Scores
IP: Logged

Message:
Well, let's hope that someday it will turn up in some dusty corner. Let this be a lesson to those who believe that because something was published means it can't disappear. If I had the cash, I'd offer a reward for finding the score and publish an ad in "Gramophone" or a similar journal.

Now, given that:

1. There are plenty of Raff scores to serve as models

and

2. The piano reduction probably has a few indications about the orchestration (I haven't seen it),

I would think that a reasonably accurate reconstruction would be possible. Further, it might make a good thesis for a composition student at a conservatory. I don't imagine one of the professional orchestrators would be interested unless many $$ were involved. Dare we hope?

Volker Tosta

12/2/2003

RE: Raff Scores
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Message:
Well, there is even more than the piano score. The Bavarian State Library owns a set of 13 orchestral parts which are said to belong to the first version. I haven't checked this but I was told so by the Bayerischer Rundfunk (Bavarian Radio) at the time they made the recording for Tudor Records. This would mean that "only" the remaining 7 parts would have to be reconstructed. BTW. the Schaefer work catalog lists the score of the concerto with the annotation "In Abschrift" which could be translated as "manual copy". Only the parts were printed. So if anyone is going to search for the first version, search for the parts but not the score.

Volker

Stackpole

28/3/2003

RE: Raff Scores
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I would swear that the Eastman School of Music in Rochester, NY has a manuscript copy of the full score First Violin Concerto op. 161.
Or is this the Wilhelmj edition?

Stackpole

28/3/2003

RE: Raff Scores
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I know it's way too late now for the Bad Urach people, but at University of California, Berkeley there is a score and a set of parts for the Op. 200 Suite that are in fine shape.

Mark

31/3/2003

RE: Raff Scores
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Message:
I'll see if I can get any info. on the Violin Concerto No.1 version held at Eastman. Thanks for the tip.

As for Op.200 - there are full copies in both the British Library and in the Fleischer Collection in Philadelphia. There wasn't, I understand, any practical difficulty in sourcing the parts in Germany - just inertia on the part of the guy who'd promised to do it!

A shame.


Posted by	Message
Volker Tosta 25/7/2002	Subject: Raff Scores Message: Hello, as some of you may know I am publishing music by Raff (as a part-time business) for about seven years now. Some recent performances / recordings couldn't have been done without these editions. Currently, I am finishing score, vocal score, and parts of Raff's lyrical opera "Benedetto Marcello (Art and Love)" which will have its world premiere this fall in a concert version. Although I begin to get appreciation and interest for my edition I know, that it will take more than a life time to have a complete Raff available in modern and reliable prints. It is true that most of Raff's works have been printed during his life time but still there are problems today localizing score of some of his works and have them available in a condition that professional players are willing to use. As a recent example, Raff's suite op. 200 dropped from a concert in Bad Urach because the organizer could not get hold of usable copy of the parts (there may be other reasons as well). Wouldn't it be great if the Raff society starts to localize, collect, store, and make available Raff's scores to performers world-wide? I know that other musical societies offer this kind of service. As a first step we could expand the catalog of works on this site with references to the availability of the scores. I would volunteer to pass a list of what is available in the Stuttgart State Library where there is a large collection of Raff's piano music. Kind regards, Volker
John Boyer 26/7/2002	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: This is a fine idea. But are you suggesting that we simply note what is available at our local libraries, or that we make copies of these old scores for a central repository, to be administered by the society? On a side note, I'm curious about the stated reason for dropping the Suite. In this day of scanners and photocopiers, if you have a score, you can whip up a set of parts with minimal effort.
John Boyer 26/7/2002	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: This is a fine idea. But are you suggesting that we simply note what is available at our local libraries, or that we make copies of these old scores for a central repository, to be administered by the society? On a side note, I'm curious about the stated reason for dropping the Suite. In this day of scanners and photocopiers, if you have a score, you can whip up a set of parts with minimal effort.
Mark 27/7/2002	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: Yes, a great idea Volker. Of course, I'd be happy to expand the web site to accomodate information on the wherabouts and availability of scores - on of my most frequent email enquiries is from potential performers tying to track down parts. As a first step perhaps we could contact the libraries and orchestras in our respective countries to see what they have available. Some have searchable catalogues on the web. Obviously Germany will be the largest potential source, but I'll get in touch with the UK organisations once I get back from holiday. Maybe John or Jaimie could try the US sources like the Fliescher collection in Philadelphia, the New York Public Library and the older orchestras. I already have a list of the sizeable collection held by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. It would be useful to know, of course, whether they have a short score, a full set of parts, what condition the material is in and, crucially, how copies may be obtained (xerox, microfiche etc) and at what cost. In theory I'm also all for the physical collection of material too - but I want to give it more thought... Cheers
Jamie 28/7/2002	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: I agree with John and Mark that Volker's suggestion is a great idea. l know the NY Public Library has a voluminous collection of Raff scores as l have seen them myself, though l haven't been there in at least 10 years. l recall seeing the scores of all 11 symphonies, the piano concerto, the Thuringian Suite, and even the Weltende oratorio there. l'm sure the Edwin Fleischer collection must also contain a large repository of Raff scores, though l found their website difficult to search. l remember one recording, possibly the piano concerto played by Frank Cooper, where the liner notes credited the Fleischer collection for providing the score. BTW, Volker, l plan to purchase the Benedetto Marcello scores when they become available, even though l doubt l'll ever hear it performed. Perhaps l shouldn't be so pessimistic. After all, l despaired of ever hearing any Raff symphony other than "Im Walde" or "Lenore" after being tantalized by their scores, then lo and behold, Marco Polo recorded all of them.
Volker Tosta 29/7/2002	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: Hello Jamie, you shouldn't be too pessimistic about "Benedetto". The performance will be taped by SWR radio and there is a good chance that it will be broadcast a few months later. I will certainly record this and trasnfer it to CD. Also, Capriccio Records, have published many recordings from the Bad Urach festival in the past (like operas from Spohr, Abert, and Nessler), so there is some chance as well that they will issue it one or two years after the performance. BTW, the "Benedetto" ouverture has already bee recorded as part of the Stadlmair series (as well as the ouvertüre to "Die Parole"). They are also interested in recording the "King Alfred" ouverture, just waiting for me to edit it. Cordially, Volker
Eric Schissel 15/11/2002	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: Quite right about NYPL I think- they also have a good selection of the chamber music as well, I know I've looked at two or three of the string quartets and the sextet there. (They also have been picking up the Nordstern edition, memory serves.) I believe they lost their original score of the piano quintet as of the last time I asked for it, regrettably, though it may have turned up as they moved (from and back to their Lincoln Center location over the last few years)- that sometimes happens, and I know the last time I asked them was before then. (My favorite of Raff's chamber works; I hope MDG does not too long delay in releasing that recording.)
John Boyer 30/1/2003	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: During the search for the original (Siegel) edition of the Raff 1st Violin Concerto, was any attempt made to contact the collections of the Boston or New York Public Libraries?
Mark 10/2/2003	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: Sorry that I missed this post, John. The answer is yes, apparantly. AFAIK it was a VERY exhaustive search on both sides of the Atlantic. I think that we can say that the orchestral version is lost, though the piano/violin reduction which Raff made is around. Fancy doing a Cooke or Payne?
John Boyer 11/2/2003	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: Well, let's hope that someday it will turn up in some dusty corner. Let this be a lesson to those who believe that because something was published means it can't disappear. If I had the cash, I'd offer a reward for finding the score and publish an ad in "Gramophone" or a similar journal. Now, given that: 1. There are plenty of Raff scores to serve as models and 2. The piano reduction probably has a few indications about the orchestration (I haven't seen it), I would think that a reasonably accurate reconstruction would be possible. Further, it might make a good thesis for a composition student at a conservatory. I don't imagine one of the professional orchestrators would be interested unless many $$ were involved. Dare we hope?
Volker Tosta 12/2/2003	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: Well, there is even more than the piano score. The Bavarian State Library owns a set of 13 orchestral parts which are said to belong to the first version. I haven't checked this but I was told so by the Bayerischer Rundfunk (Bavarian Radio) at the time they made the recording for Tudor Records. This would mean that "only" the remaining 7 parts would have to be reconstructed. BTW. the Schaefer work catalog lists the score of the concerto with the annotation "In Abschrift" which could be translated as "manual copy". Only the parts were printed. So if anyone is going to search for the first version, search for the parts but not the score. Volker
Stackpole 28/3/2003	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: I would swear that the Eastman School of Music in Rochester, NY has a manuscript copy of the full score First Violin Concerto op. 161. Or is this the Wilhelmj edition?
Stackpole 28/3/2003	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: I know it's way too late now for the Bad Urach people, but at University of California, Berkeley there is a score and a set of parts for the Op. 200 Suite that are in fine shape.
Mark 31/3/2003	RE: Raff Scores IP: Logged Message: I'll see if I can get any info. on the Violin Concerto No.1 version held at Eastman. Thanks for the tip. As for Op.200 - there are full copies in both the British Library and in the Fleischer Collection in Philadelphia. There wasn't, I understand, any practical difficulty in sourcing the parts in Germany - just inertia on the part of the guy who'd promised to do it! A shame.