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FERNANDO OLIVA   23/3/2004	Subject: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES Message: Dear Peter (and Friends), Many thanks for your expert opinions about Raff, Respighi and Saint-Saëns works. I´m going to add the Respighi´s Mixolodian Piano Concerto to my purchasing list. You forget to bring me your thoughts about the Rubinstein "Drammatic" Symphony and its so long 15 m. larger Scherzo. I think there´s an humour sense spark on it. I also like very much its slow movement. Talking about furtive musical pleasures, I confess you I like the Waldteufel waltzes. Do you know them? The best known Waldteufel waltzes are "The Skaters", "Pomone", "Diamonds Rain", "Estudiantina" and "Spain". "Estudiantina" and "Spain" are based on Spanish folks, specially "Spain" a really Arangonese Jota dance cast in waltz form. Emil Waldteufel was an French Alsacian light music composer, much popular in the later 19th. Century years. I apologize for the Waldteufel "furtive" pleasure. Have a nice day. Thanks in advance for your expert opinions Greetings from Raffcelona, Fernando.
Mark   23/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Maybe not furtive, but certainly a bit sheepish, is my love of anything by Franz von Suppé. The jaunty rhythms, the instantly whistleable melodies, the perky orchestration - none of it high art, but I just love it all. I also have a very soft spot for Victorian Ballads - "The Lost Chord", "Jerusalem", "The Road to Mandalay", that sort of thing. They get my wife cringeing, but I enjoy all that heart on sleeve stuff...
FERNANDO OLIVA   23/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Mark: I think that another furtive pleasure may be the Suppe´s "Light Cavalry Overture". I enjoyed also the Suppe´s Overtures from "Poet and Peasant" and "Morning, evening and night in Vienna", but the "Light Cavalry" is truly a merry-go-round music. Well, I have a friend that says the Verdi´s "Aida Triumph March" is also merry-go-round music. I know the soccer hooligans in Spain sing the Aida´s March (with theirs own obscene lyrics, of course). We also could talk about on "Carmina Burana" (O Fortuna! Velut Luna!)... I apologize for my humoristic thread although the Classical Music conversations also may be funny. Cheers, Fernando.
peter conole   23/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Thanks for kick-starting this thread. Would have got around to it, but there is much to do. I have only two pieces associated with Waldteufel - 'The Skaters Waltz' and his orchestration of Chabrier's 'Espana'. I really enjoyed both - it might be fun to track down some of the other pieces you mentioned. It is a relief to see that other people are willing to admit they like Suppe. He has some competitors in the 'overtures department', but few have his melodic gifts. I like Mark's use of the word 'sheepish'. There is quite a lot of music that a majority of critics seem to disapprove of, for various reasons (some good), to the point where it becomes almost embarrassing to admit to a liking for it. Odd irrational feelings, including guilt, can make an appearance. Writing about the subject is a useful purgative, when one is pretty sure that sensitive local friends will never know about the discussion and choke over their beer or chardonnay. I was shocked to hear that Spanish soccer fans have abused Verdi's music (am joking). One football team down here produced a noble club song using the French national anthem. You can imagine what happened next - fans of rival clubs produced a couple of obscene versions. Glad to know Mark is also keen on Victorian parlour ballads. I imagine you would add 'Come into the garden, Maud' and a lot more. Was very irritated by my total failure to obtain a Serendipity disc (SERCD2500) called 'Lost Chord - 19th century ballads recalled'. Consolation is that a disc called 'Soldier, Soldier' appeared 3 years ago (Artworks label, AWO28). It features 21 of Kipling's barrack-room ballads, set by various composers for baritone and piano. Furtive secret: am keen on some overtly patriotic ones, eg, 'The Widow at Windsor', 'The Widow's Party' and 'Tommy'. Now comes the awkward bit - true confessions by way of a few listed furtive pleasures, with minimal comment; (1) Raff's cavatina. One of his few remembered pieces some decades ago - still very nice (2) Ketelbey's 'Mystic land of Egypt' (3) German's 'Yoemen of England', with a large baritone and a huge chorus thrown in for good measure (4) Brahms - Triumphlied, op.55 (5) Liszt - Les preludes. Enough. I note the reminder, Fernando. I promise to listen to Rubinstein's No.4 and send an honest opinion within two weeks. regards Peter
peter conole   25/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Another four items while no one is looking; (1) Reznicek's 'Donna Diana' overture (2) Herold's overture to 'Zampa' (3) Arne's 'Rule, Britannia', with the best mezzo-soprano in town, a chorus of 3000 and particular emphasis (thrice repeated) on the immortal verse: " Still more majestic shalt thou rise, more dreadful from each foreign stroke, etc,etc." (4) Anthony Heinrich's Grand Symphony (1846 version) -'The ornithological combat of kings, or, the condor of the Andes and the eagle of the Cordilleras.' regards Peter
peter conole   28/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Fernando, I listened to Rubinsteins's Dramatic Symphony, as promised. I do not think it has to be a 'furtive musical pleasure', unlike mine, which are a disgrace to civilisation (am joking). Here is my honest (not expert) opinion. Ist movement - dignified and melodic, with enough interest to keep me lisening carefully for 23 minutes. Presto - the scherzo you liked with an element of humour. A mixed section, but I really admired those parts (twice) where a gypsy violin (or a Russian village violin) came in to it with lovely effect. Adagio was ok. Last movement, for me, was not that inspired, but the finale was impressive and uplifting. I liked it. The symphony caught me at a vulnerable moment. I had just seen, for the 4th time, a film called 'Russian Ark'. Have you seen it? With one exception, it was my favourite film of the last 2-3years. Many musical allusions in the film. Great film craft in some scenes. Was moved and stirred by it. Very compassionate, warm film. Personal taste - review were mixed. A good film for 'seeing into' some aspects of the background to Raff-era music. A couple more 'furtive musical pleasures': (1) Toreador song from Bizet's opera 'Carmen' (2) Gounod's opera 'Faust'. I want to produce an uncompromising and over-the-top 19th century style presentation of the work. Have got special plans for the tavern scene, where Mephistopheles marks a grand departure. Can see it in my minds eye - dramatic gestures, cloaks swishing, swords half drawn, silver crucifices flashing, bosoms heaving, brows being clasped, the evil one departing (yes, horns and tail) with arm extended in scorn towards the faithful... I am not an opera person, but that one belongs to me when Luis gets $one billion (US) to take over the musical scene. regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   29/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Peter, Thank you very much for your honest and expert opinions about the Rubinstein "Drammatic" Symphony. I entirely agree with you. I think that the Adagio is also a nice and romantic musical moment. The final movement keep some structural similarities with the Tchaikovsky´s 5th. Symphony last movement: a secondary theme ends the symphony after a "false" finale. What´s your expert opinion about the Franz Schmidt Symphonies? Now I am listening to the Second and I like it. I also have the 4th. and I also like it. Schmidt was much influenced by Anton Bruckner. Although his orchestration sounds like as Straussian, his powerful and nature inspired themes are much more near the spirit of Anton Bruckner than the Strauss or Mahler. Maybe the Schmidt Symphonies another "furtive" pleasure? Here you are another 3 furtive musical pleasures: - I used like to listen to the Orff "Carmina Burana" when I was teenager. Nowadays I don´t like much this choral work because is from me "too Hollywoodian", and the themes ara excessively easy to listen to... and to sing. - The Bramh´s "Academic Festival Overture". I confess with no shame that I like it! - I am also shameless to confess you I like the Raff Jubel-Overture in C major: Good save the Queen! - The Ravel´s Bolero. I think it´s agood piece but it´s so far to be a "masterpiece". Listening to this "perpetuum-mobile" sensual dance I couldn´t ressist the tentation to remember Bo Derek ( The Ten-Woman) having a bath in the beach. I am looking forward for more "furtive musical pleasures". Nice to have a very funny Classical Music chat, Cheers, Fernando.
peter conole   29/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Fernando, I was quite shocked when you listed Raff's Jubel-Overture in C Major. That took a lot of courage. Quite inspiring, really. Yes, I like the overture too. A fine tune and other major composers made use of it. After one of Britain's successful 18th Century wars, somebody added extra verses to the anthem. They make 'Rule Britannia' sound quite sweet and modest by comparison. The additional verses were quietly dropped in later times... You beat me to the gun by including the wonderful Academic Festival overture of Brahms. I add the following additional furtive musical pleasures: (1) Arthur Benjamin's 'Jamaican Rumba' (2) Alexandre Luigini's 'Ballet Egyptien' Suite (3) Henri Vieuxtemps - 'Greeting to America' - fantasy for violin and orchestra, op.56. The work combines 'The Star Spangled Banner' and 'Yankee Doodle'. Very appealing and enjoyable piece. (4) The Berlioz arrangement of 'La Marseillaise' - with a chorus of 5000 in 1st French Republic uniforms; artillery and fireworks should be added. So far offerings on this thread have been cautious and reasonably tasteful. regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   30/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Peter: First, I apologize for my bad english. I wrote "Good save the Queen", when I would liked to write "God ..." Thank you for your expert opinions. I am glad to hear the Raff Overture in C major and the Brahms Academic Festival Overture are not "furtive musical pleasures". Now I will listen them with no guilty sense. I am curious about your opinion about the Ravel´s Bolero. Should it be included among the "furtive musical pleasures"? I am not sure but I am afraid that the "Marsellaise" appears also included into a Schumann´s Overture. I think that may be "Hermann and Dorothea". Am I right? Another piece that is not a "furtive musical pleasure", but is too often played and excessively exaggerated conducted is the Tchaikovsky´s "1.812". Here you are three new musical furtive pleasures. - The Tchaikovsky´s "Slavonic March" played by a Wind military Band. - The Tchaikovsky´s "Spanish", "Arabic" and "Chinese" dances from the "Nutcracker· Suite. - The Juventino Rosas "Waves Waltz" I am waiting for more guilty delights... Cheers, Fernando
Luis de Orueta   30/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando, About Franz Schmidt: yes he is one of my favourite composers. In him I like the the way he can create a feeling of lazy afternoon nostalgia.This is specially noticable in the first movement of his Third Symphony, a piece of music to be enjoyed after 3 p.m.( outdoors) but before the sun sets. It is not the "Ewig, ewig.. "from Das Lied von der Erde, it´s much less dramatic but perhaps even more melancolic. In the 2nd movement of his 2nd Symphony ( I hope by Neeme Jarvi) you may have noticed how one of the variations appears and sounds like a triumphant affirmation of life, and yet it cannot help evoking the same "tristesse" that destills all his music. That particular variation is almost a clonic sister of the intermezzo in his Opera Notre Dame ( which could be a shamefull candidate to furtive listening on my part) Later in his life his mood turned darker after the loss of his daughter (like Malher´s with his Manon)), witness his Quintet for clarinet + piano (watch the second movement) or his 4th Sympony. Of his major works I enjoy Notre Dame almost as much as Das Buch mit Sieben Sieglen. But before sailing those ocean seas I would recommend becoming familiar with the more protected waters of the 2nd and 3rd Symphonies. I must say Fernando, you have an enthusiastic ear and I foresee lots of beautiful listening hours in front of you. Con un muy cordial saludo Luis
peter conole   31/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Fernando Was only joking when I said I was shocked when you listed Raff's 'Jubilee' overture. I guess virtually everything we have listed are private 'guilty pleasures'. The one's you listed in your last posting were really good, especially Tchaikovsky. The military band bit made me laugh (have some military band pieces I will confess to later) . Like Ravel's 'Bolero'. The film '10' was on television a while ago. Also the Italian cartoon film 'Allegro non troppo'- 'Bolero' is used for a section about dinosaurs. Very refined. I confess to these: (1) Tchaikovsky's Coronation March for Czar Alexander III (2) Ponchielli's 'Dance of the Hours' from 'La Gioconda'. Saw the Disney fim on video. Delicate and maidenly hippopotamus ballerinas. Villainous crocodiles wearing black capes. (3)Verdi's opera 'Il Trovatore' Want to produce that on like Gounod's 'Faust'. No compromises - large crowd scenes and good swordplay. Luis has added a possible 'furtive pleasure' from Schmidt's 'Notre Dame'. Here is a very sheepish admission: Gustave Goublier's song 'Notre Dame de Paris' - the version with orchestra and choir. regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   31/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Luis: I am glad to chat with you again. It´s always a great pleasure and a privilege to have a Classical Music conversation with you. I know you as specialized radio-speaker and Classical Music expert. I discovered the amazing Classical Music work through the Fernando Argenta´s radio-show "Clasicos Populares" when I was teenager ( much time ago, in 1980). Thank you very much for your expert recommendations. I have listened to the Schmidt 2nd. and 4th. Symphonies and I have detected much Bruckner influence on his music. I would like to listen to his Left Hand Piano Concerto. By mi side, the Schmidt Symphonies souds better than the immature and erratic Hans Rott Symphony in E major. The Rott´s Symphony sounds like the music student fist draft of the Titan Symphony with too Bruckner bad digested influences, although, I admit there are some good musical moments into this work. What´s your opinion about Anton Rubinstein, Don Luis? I am so Rubinstein sympathizer although I admit he sold his good work in fractionary coins. Encantado de hablar con vd.! Dear Peter: Curiously, I was thinking on the Ponchielli´s Gioconda´s Ballet "Dance of the Hours" tonight. It´s really a furtive musical pleasure. I admit ..well, with a little bit of shame, that I like to listen to sometimes some Johann Strauss jr. polkas and Marches. Here you are my favorites: - Greetings from Austria (polka-mazurka) - Tritsch-Tratsch (schnell polka) - Thunders and lightening polka" (schnell polka) - Eljen a Magyar (polka in hungarian mood) - In the Knapfenwadl (french polka) - Aegyptian March and Persian March (Marches with exotic strokebrushes) I read that the most famous Opera Composer before the Wagbner-Verdi era was the French Jakob Meyerbeer, but today he is a neglected composer. Do you (or other Forum friend) know any Meyerbeer orchestral piece? I read he composed two succesful Operas in his own time. "Robert the Devil" and "The Prophet". Thanks in advance, Fernando.
peter conole   31/3/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Fernando Have just checked out a little on Meyerbeer. He seems to have composed about 15 operas plus an oratorio, marches, a little chamber music, songs, and incidental music for a play. Have extracts from about six operas, mostly arias. I suspect Le Prophete was the most grandiose of his operas. The 'coronation march' from that work is a good furtive pleasure. It also has a stirring 'war song ' for tenor and chorus called 'Roi du ciel'. Electricity was used in the theatre for the first time when that opera was performed (1849). Am lucky to know a little, because a CD arrived with some of scarce orchestral music only recently - an overture in march -style for the London exhibition of 1862, a festival march to honour Schiller's birth and four dances for Prussian royal weddings. One of the dances makes use of 'God Save the Queen'. There is also a 'coronation march' for Wilhelm 1 of Prussia recorded elsewhere (1861). To be honest, I got the CD out of pure curiosity. The music is entertaining but nothing special. regards Peter
Steve Benson   01/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Have never posted to this Society before though have been a member for around a year. Though I try not to be TOO furtive re my obscure(though often good) 19th Century music pleasures, I would include these works: 1. genuinely good, well-crafted but fun pieces: piano concerti by Raff, Rubinstein 3 and 4, Reinecke No.2, D'Albert 1 and 2, Paderewski and Moszkowski(both of the latter incredibly moving, under-rated and beautifully wriiten for piano AND orchestra.) 2. probably, being ruthlessly honest, and, I must add, only in my opinion, just plain silly, camp and over-the-top(but still beautiful in their own way, and I love them!)-Hiller piano concerto, Rubinstein No1(with the most gorgeously silly but nice tunes), von Bronsart Piano Concerto. I would also put in this category Gottschalk's "nights in the Tropics" "symphony", for its schmaltzy trumpet tune(1st movt) and camp second movt. the list is endless! Please note the omnipresence of Michael Ponti in most of the above, who, I think, brings these forgotten joys more to life than anyone, though I know he is not particuarly respected by some(whose view i respect)because of his frenetic, frenzied, impassioned, crazy but, I think, often very sensitive playing. And, yes, most of the orchestras are mediocre to awful technically but even they have a great brio and passion to their playing, which suits these flamboyant, swashbuckling but often very very poignant works. It is nice to find a site where people are talking about Scharwenka and Raff rather than Mozart and Beethoven! I challenge anyone to find a madder, more manic and exciting romp than M. Ponti playing the last movt of Reinecke No.2. Views on all the above welcome, on this site or email address:stev_arts@yahoo.co.uk
FERNANDO OLIVA   01/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Peter: Many thanks for the Meyerbeer information. I was too busy today listening to the superb Brahm´s Double concerto for Cello and Violin in A minor, and the Granville Bantock´s Hebridean Symphony. Do you know the Hebridean Symphony? What´s your opinion? Dear Steven: Welcome to the most funny and educational Classical Music Forum around the cyber-world! I also know and like the Raff, Rubinstein and D´Albert Piano Concertos that you like. I don´t have heard the Reinecke 2nd. Under my point of view Michael Ponti is one of the most nervous and faster pino solist that I ever listened. Do you like the Scharwenka Piano Concertos 2 & 3? Both are for me superbs! Nice to meet you! Fernando.
John Boyer   01/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: First Peter and now Steve mention the Rubinstein 1st Concerto as being a guilty pleasure. Guilty indeed! Jeremy Norris, in his fine study, "The Russian Piano Concerto: Volume I, The Nineteenth Century" (Indiana University Press, 1994) cites the Rubinstein 1 as one of the most embarrassingly bad works in the history of published music. Well, I don't think it's THAT bad, but it is pretty silly. Norris's book is a real treat. He devotes an entire chapter to Rubinstein (Tchaikovksy is the only other composer so honored). He also solves one the great musical mysteries: did Tchaikovsky die before finishing the 3rd Concerto, or was Jurgenson's decision to publish only the 1st movement in keeping with Mr. T's wishes? Alas, Norris never followed up with Volume II, so we must still wait for a detailed analysis of the Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Khatchaturian, and other concertos. By the way, Steve, you mention Ponti and the Reinecke 2nd. Did he ever record this? He recorded the Reinecke 1st for Vox way back when, and this is still the recording to have. The more recent CPO recording sounds much better, but is nowhere near as exciting. The Ruiz disc on Genesis is somewhere inbetween. Just as Ponti's over-the-top treatment of the Reinecke 1 is the one to have, so it is with his original recording of the Raff. I've never heard anything quite so exciting. And three cheers for the Paderewski! It's one of the great romantic concertos.
peter conole   01/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: What on earth have we started with this thread. It is very enjoyable and educational and I still feel guilty about it. It gives such pleasure to read comments by two other people about Rubinstein's Piano Concerto no 1. I am very careful not to over-use that work. Only about once a year, at the most. It is a 'rainy day' piece - never fails to leave me feeling happy. I what give my left arm to have a time machine, just to be present at the premiere in Imperial Russia. Thanks for the reference, John. That is a must-read. But the concerto...Rubinstein only 21, and he hurls everything into it, including two kitchen sinks. That unbelievable coda in the last movement, with martial support from the orchestra. The portentous trying-so-hard 1st movement, the tidal wave of sentiment in the second...the whole work (excuse me for this) drips with 19th century testosterone. Quite touching in a way. I find it difficult to disagree with much in anyone's remarks - it is obvious we are on the same wave length re the pleasure principle. And Paderewski's wonder-work gets a mention. And Steve even mentions Gottschalk and D'Albert. And Michael Ponti is discussed with real appreciation. I know he has been discussed before, but I am not sure how his career wound up. What happened to him? I am beginning to think this current discussion is worth another and more serious thread. Something with a title like 'Ponti's legacy'. It might fit in well with discussion of Raff's piano concerto and others of the 1870's. Ponti did so much for Raff and his peers. And I agree - his versions of the Raff and Reinecke no.1 concertos are still the best around. Fernando, the Bantock work and the Scharwenka concertos are great favourites. Will discuss later. It is good to know a Scharwenka sympnony will soon appearing. I feel obliged to say goodnight with a couple more fairly obvious furtive pleasures - intermezzos from some 'verismo'' operas. Such as: Mascagni's 'Cavalleria Rusticana' and 'Guglielmo Ratcliff'; Leoncavallo's 'Pagliacci'; Wolf-Ferrari's 'Jewells of the Madonna' regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   02/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Friends: Apologies, dear friends, but I am afraid that I am GUILTY. Yes, I like the Rubinstein 1st. Piano Concerto. The Banowetz performance of the 1st. and 2nd. Piano Concertos from Marco Polo was my second experience on Rubinstein Piano Concertos after had enjoyed the 5th. also played by Banowetz. Well, I confess you with no shame that I like all the Rubinstein Piano Concertos, in special addition to the 4th. I have two versions of this Concerto, the nervous and faster from Ponti, and the most calmly from Banowetz. I prefer the Banowetz one. Perhaps this Concerto is too Chopinian as the First Symphony sounds like so Mendelssohnian (it includes an Andante by "Italian pilgrims" inspiration as tribute to Mendelssohn 4th.), but we must think that both works (1st. Symphony and 1st. Piano Concerto) were the first time ever premiered Symphony and Piano Cocnerto from a Russian Composer in the Imperial Russia. Do you have heard the "Caprice Russe" for piano and orchestra? I like very much this work, from the mature Rubinstein´s production. The Banowetz performance for Marco Polo was the World Premiere Recording of this "Caprice". Talking about Joseph Banowetz, I would like to request your expert opinion about this American Piano Solist. I also would like to add to the list of furtive musical pleasures: - The Rubisntein Dances of The Bayaderes from his Opera Ballet Suite "Feramors" The Delibes "Music of the Machines" from his Ballet Coppelia. Have a nice week-end! Greetings from Raffcelona! Fernando.
John Boyer   03/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Mr. Banowetz, like a citizens of the 21st Century, has his own website: http://www.josephbanowetz.com/
peter conole   04/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Great news about Banowetz. Will resist temptation and 'would you consider having a go at the following works...' type of posting for now. It would be really nice if, as the Ponti thread picks up steam (hopefully), if a collective message of appreciation could eventually be sent to the gentleman. If he can be found. regards Peter
peter conole   04/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando The 'furtive musical pleasures' issue is becoming a real battle of wits. Who is the most shameless and disgraceful - Fernando or Peter? I think you are winning because of the Strauss posting. Fernando, I love the Bantock 'Hebridean Symphony'. In fact, I prefer it to any of the Richard Strauss tone/symphonic poems. Please tell me what you think and I will truthfully respond. And this is a promise -over the next two weeks I will listen to all of the Scharwenka piano concertos and give you an opinion. More furtive, guilty pleasures. Some readers will give me up as a lost cause after these. Pray for my soul: (1) Tchaikovsky - 'Dance of the sugar plum fairy' from the Nutcracker Suite (2) Handel - fine chorus from Judas Maccabeus that begins ' See the conquering hero comes, sound the trumpets, beat the drums; sports prepare, the laurel bring, songs of triumph to him sing...' (3) Martini song (actually by Johann Schwartzendorf) called 'Plaisir d'amour'. There is an awful 'pop' rendition of the song. I am now ahead by one goal. Over to you. regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   05/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Peter: I plant to listen to the Hebridean Symphony for second time over this week. My first impression was so positive. You take a risk comparing the Hebridean Symphony versus the Strauss Tone Poems. I always liked much this works except the bored and dull "Zaratrusta" (perhaps the best "sunrise" from the History of the music followed by half an hour of bored music that means nothing). By mi side, after the first audition I think that the Bantock´s Hebridean Symphony sounds like a "Sea" orchestral Symphony similar to the Ocean Symphony in original version but wrote in Strauss style. I liked it, it´s a powerful work, lyrical, brooding and violent. Its score includes violin solo, harp, celesta and it´s the parts for trumpets is so hard to play. The Bantock´s CD from NAXOS includes two additional and fine works: The Old English Suite contains arrangement in romantics orchestration of pieces by Elizabethan composers. It´s work nice and delightful. The Russian Scenes are some superbly light music sketches inspired by Eastern Europe music. Only the first and the last sketch are really russian. Here you are more "furtive musical pleasures" - Seeing that much experts from this Forum dislike the First Rubinstein Piano Concerto, I would like to include it on this list, because it´s for me a really GUILTY pleasure. - The "On the Trail" sketch from the Grofe´s "Grand Canyon Suite". It sounds like a really Far-West spot for a no American people. - The Franz Léhar´s waltz and march from The Merry Widow Operetta. - The Franz Léhar famous "Gold and Silver" waltz . - The Elgar´s "Imperial March". - The "On the Roman Circus" ballet suite from the Rubinstein´s Opera "Nero". I plan to listen to the Ives 1st. Symphony today. Ives wrote both tonal and no-tonal works. I like his 2nd. Symphony, really casted in American mood. I dislike a lot his "Robert Browning Oberture". What´s your expert opinion about the Ives music? Thanks in advance for your expert opinions and recommendations. Kind regards, Fernando.
peter conole   05/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando I think you have taken the lead again. Rather like a Davis Cup final, Spain against Australia. I agree with you about the Bantock work. It is wonderful - tempestuous, strong music, with great melodies drawn from folk music. And that wonderful section when the trumpet goes crazy. The Hyperion recording was a huge success - the Marco Polo effort not so good. For me, it is one of the most successful of all 'programmatic' works. Richard Strauss? Yes, the Zarathustra collapses after the opening. So does 'Ein Heldenleben'. The 'Alpine Symphony' is better, but after hearing it I still feel as though the composer has taken me to the top of the Matterhorn and left me there - no way down. Not entirely satisfying. Heard some Ives music a few years ago, but was not impressed. I admit 'Three places in New England' had some sections I liked. Some more 'furtive pleasures': (1) Wagner - Rienzi overture (2) Elgar - Pomp and Circumstance Marches (not really furtive because they are fine music) (3) Offenbach - the 'Gendarmes Duet' from 'Genevieve of Brabant' (4) The older Strauss - Radetzky March (5) Marschner - opera 'The Vampire'. The plot is wonderfully gothic and over-the-top, but I only have a couple of extracts on CD (6)Gounod's Saint Cecilia Mass - do not feel at all embarassed about that one. Really do admire it. regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   06/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Peter. I confess you that I like the Strauss´ Alpina very much. During much years I did mountaineering and climbed up the tallest Pyrinean peaks and also climbed two times in the Alps. I used to camp in the high mountain and to live outdoors. As mountaineer, I think the high mountain feelings depiction from this symphony is good. As Classical Music keen, I admit that there are in this Symphony some moments of really great music ( the initial tonal cluster, the impressives sunrise and sunset, the pizzicato dangerous rock fallen theme) beside so topic and ingenuous moments (brass hunting theme, cowbells, bird songs, wind machine ). I like this Symphony but... its sounds like as a tourist postcard beside two musical moments that really get the real essence of the high montain landscapes and spirit. Try to listen to the Bruckner´s 8th. Symphony Adagio and the Mahler´s 6th. Symphony Andante, and tell me your expert opinion after... The Strauss Alpina will performed in Barcelona on May 3rd. I got the ticket for the Concert and I am exciting to listen to it. Here you are some Strauss´ works that I dislike: - The Domestic Symphony - Also Sprach Zaratrusta (it´s specially dull) - From Italy - Metamorphosen (It´s specially bored) And I would like to add to the list of "furtive musical pleasures": - The J. S. Bach "Aria from the Suite nº 3". There is also a hip-hop version. - The "Nuremberg Master Singers Oberture". The Führer´s favorite. - The Boccherini´s "Minuetto". It´s really affected music. - The Johann Strauss, jr. Pizzicatto and New Pizzicato Polkas, and the "Champagne" and "Explosion" polkas. Have a nice day. The Spring time is just arrived to Spain. I hope we may have the first sea baths in a few weeks. Thanks in advance for your expert opinions. Kind regards from Raffcelona, Fernando.
peter conole   06/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando Ok, I admit it. You made me think again in your last posting. I listened to the 'Alpine Symphony' again this evening. Better than I first said - quite enjoyable. I last heard it about 3 years ago, so absence made the heart grow fonder. Agree with you about the Richard Strauss not-so-good pieces, although I am a little fond of 'Aus Italien'. Strauss admired Raff, so I have to be a bit biased in his favour. But the 'Domestic Symphony is awful. The 'Burlesque' for piano and orcehestra is fun. Also his concerto works - the violin concero in particular is quite lovely. I admit to liking his two early symphonies, but they cannot really count as 'furtive pleasures'. Am at a loss to reply to your latest 'guilty pleasures', because you confess to liking Johann Strauss and it would be unfair to copy you. Have had to think hard. Here they are: (1) Beethoven - Wellington's Victory, or the battle of Vittoria. Very shameless. (2) Halvorsen's march 'Entry of the Boyars' (3) Berlioz - Rakoczy march from 'The Damnation of Faust' (4) Manuel de Falla - Spanish dance from'La Vida Breve' (5) Etienne Mehul's war song 'Le Chant du Depart' of 1793, but it must be performed by a large military brass band and a men and boys chorus. So it is spring in Spain. Wonderful. It is autumn here. In a few weeks, it will not be possible to enjoy the beach. And yet, the winters are never cold enough. Civil war has broken out in this corner of Raffmark. That is, the Australian Rules football season has begun. This weekend, Neu Hicksburg plays our most evil enemies, Sud-Essen. Knives, clubs and pistols are permitted. Will try and find out more about the various club songs - several are stolen from classical music and the words are arrogant, macho and vulgar beyond belief. The tunes would be a good 'furtive pleasures' posting. regards Peter
Steve Benson   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Listened to rubinstein No.1 again: reminded me of susan sontag's definition of "camp"- so bad its good.OK, its corny and full of bombast but, as someone said, it is , at least to a certain degree, a matter of personal taste. Its great fun, poignant in its bombastic earnestness at times(though not great music in any accepted sense)Silly but glorious highlights would be wacky clarinet "second subject" in movt. 1, and the big march tune in the finale, especially the final rush/push, which in th Fardink LP version sounds excruciatingly, wonderfully "bad". The melody of the slow movt. is actually just simply beautiful, without tackiness. Fernando, played Ponti's scharwenka No2; not immediately stunned but will report back on a second hearing. Not sure what thread to put them in, as there is nothing "furtive" in my pleasure here, but I recommend the following Romantic violin concertos, as being all beautiful, melodically entrancing and well-constructed: 1. Goldmark-played uncut on Naxos(I think-anyway, without Ricci's Turnabout cuts). Its seamless, soring melody. 2. Sinding. only recording I know is Rare Recorded Editions LP, played nicely by Hugh Bean; stunning melodies again, and some excitement; the melodies are heartbreaking. 3. Similarly for the Moszkowski-just out on A Hyperion cd. The intense melody in the slow movement reminds me of Elgar. Moszkowski is another scandalously under-represented and much maligned(nowadays)composer. Lest it be suggested I confuse "sentimentality", particuarly in reference to certain types of melodic expression, I would say, in my defence, that the word doesnt have to have deroggatory(sorry, spelt wrong)overtones:it can just mean, simply, an outpouring of feeling, from the Latin sentio, to feel. Who is, ultimately, to say that, if it moves an individual, that is not what matters. Or if it makes you cry, as people have already mentioned a couple of pieces as making them do, or it sends a shiver down the spine. Its done its work. Oh," but its not spiritually beautiful/great";who is to define the spirit of each individual respondent, and what touches/moves it? I know these are difficult questions, on which people will have very different views. I respect these views. Happy listening, Steve .
Jamie   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: I can't fathom all this praise for Rubinstein's music. Everything I've ever heard by him is empty bombast, including the symphonies and piano concertos. This is somewhat analogous to the music of Bruckner, whose symphonies for inexplicable reasons remain popular. Steve, for the sake of your soul, you need to listen to all 4 Scharwenka concertos. Each one is a masterpiece and a unique gem. The 1st, in Bb minor is fiery and impetuous and may be the only multimovement piano concerto without a slow movement (a brilliant and scintillating scherzo functions as the middle movement). In his only public appearance as a pianist, Gustav Mahler played the first movement in 1876. The 2nd, in c minor, is cast in a more traditional form with a stentorian piano entrance in the first movement which never fails to send shivers down my spine. The slow movement is Chopinesque (in fact one critic said the entire concerto reminded him of "Chopin on steroids") and finale is a rondo with a main theme so catchy you won't be able to get it out of your head for days after you hear it. The 3rd, in c# minor (my favorite key and the key of another wonderful piano concerto, the 3rd of Ferdinand Ries--why hasn't Hyperion recorded it?) is almost a free fantasia with cyclical themes that undergo a Lisztian metamorphosis. The 4th, in f minor, so magnificently played by Stephen Hough, is the best, written in 4 movements and containing the most beautiful melodies combined with the most astounding passagework and a powerful orchestral accompaniment. Scharwenka himself appeared as soloist with the NY Philharmonic on 11/28/10, conducted by none other than Gustav Mahler. These 4 works are my very favorite piano concertos, including Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, et al.
FERNANDO OLIVA   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Friends: I get Easter Holiday from today afternoon to Monday April 12th. I will connect with you next Tuesday April 13th. Peter, the Australian foot-ball sounds like very funny. I have seen reports about it on TV. Steven, I agree with you. The musical feelings are differents for each person. All respectable. Jamie, we always disagree although this time I am happy to are agree with you. I enjoy the Scharwenka Piano Concertos, and I also have recorded the superb 3rd. in tape to listen to in the car during my fishing trips. Many thanks for your information about the rest of the Scharwenka Concertos. I would like to request all friends a technical question: WHY much master pieces (for example the Grieg and Schumann Piano Concertos, Schumann and Dvorák Cello Concerto, Brahms Double Concerto, Schubert´s Trout Quintet and many more) were wrote in the A minor key? Now, as for the furtive musical pleasures, I add to our sinful list: - The Borodin´s "From the Central Asia Steppes" and the "Polovtsian Dances" from the Opera Prince Igor. - The sentimental and teary Kalinnikov´s 2nd. Movement from his 2nd. Symphony. - The Verdi´s Aria from Rigoletto "La Donna é Mobile" and the Traviata´s chorus "Libiamo" both merry-go-round music. - The Rossini´s "Il Barbero di Seviglia" Overture and the "Figaro" aria. Have a nice Easter Holiday. As I dislike the spanish traditional religious parades I would go to fish and relax listening much Classical Music. Kind regards from Raffcelona, Fernando.
Jamie   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Fernando, just a slight correction to your list of a minor pieces: the Dvorák cello concerto is in b minor and the Trout Quintet is in A major. You forgot to mention two of those neglected piano concertos in a minor: the Hummel and one by Carl Czerny). My favorite a minor pieces are both by Mendelssohn: the Scottish symphony and the overture to Die erste Walpurgisnacht (entitled "Das schlechte Wetter"). I have always wondered what prompts a composer to select a certain key. Certainly, some keys have extramusical associations, the most obvious being F major as the "pastoral" key. As I have been blessed with perfect pitch, I have always taken a keen interest in tonality.
FERNANDO OLIVA   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Many thanks for your expert explanations, Jamie. I get the opportunity to request your opinion about the F-sharp key (the same of the Korngold´s Symphony in F-sharp). I only learned some basic singing in scalaes lessons when I was child and play flute in the elemmentary school. I apologize for my error about the Dvorák Cello concerto key. I am thinking on my favorite Rubinstein Synphony (the Third) is also in A minor. Is it true? I couldn´t remember now if there ´s among the Bruckner Symphonies some wrote in A minor key. My favorite, the 8th. is in C minor. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Do you have Easter Holydays? I wish you have a nice week-end! Kind regards, Fernando.
John Boyer   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Some the "furtive" pleasures on this list shouldn't be here, not because the music is bad, but because it's not. After all, there's nothing to be ashamed of in liking the most popular efforts of Kalinnikov, Berlioz, or Borodin. This is all mainstream stuff. (Peter, you mentioned Tchaikovsky's "Coronation March"...even James Levine, who has fought to get 12-tone operas done at the Met, thinks it's a gem. A man after my own heart, as I love that march...as well as Berg and Schoenberg!) Now Rubinstein's 1st Concerto is another matter. It fits this thread perfectly. The piece is so perfectly dreadful that it's almost dreadfully perfect. Steve, your comments hit the nail on the head. Steve, don't judge the Scharwenka 2nd based on Ponti's recording. The engineering is just so bad that it's like trying to judge Van Gogh's "Starry Night" by looking through a very dirty window pane. Listen to one of the recent recording to get a real idea what this work should sound like, the run out to get the others. Jamie is right in saying your soul is at stake! Jamie, I agree that Rubinstein is pretty bad, but there are times when he connects. All the duo sonatas are pretty good (3 violin, 2 cello, 1 viola), as are the piano trios, and there's always the lovely 4th Concerto... As for Fernando's question about A minor and it's popularity. I can only think it is because it is a relatively easy key to play. You know how it is. I remember from my violin days. B-flat was easy. Go up a semi-tone to B and suddenly it's hard. Up another semi-tone to C and now it's easy again. The Rubinstein 3rd, Fernando, is in A major.
John Boyer   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: I forgot to list my furtive pleasure: The Yellow River Concerto, by the Central Music Committee of the People's Republic of China. It doesn't get any more tasteless than that. But to be honest, I haven't listened to it in more than a decade.
Jamie   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: F# major seems to me to be a very bright and happy key. There aren't too many compositions in this key, probably because of the 6# key signature. Chopin's Barcarole comes to mind as a good example of this key. Parry's piano concerto is in F# major (paired with the Stanford 1st in G major on Hyperion). An excellent Raff example is the slow movement of the 4th trio, in an alternating f# minor/F# major, opening with that glorious cello melody. I don't know what key Rubinstein's 3rd symphony is in, but his 6th is in a minor. Bruckner didn't compose any symphonies in a minor.
peter conole   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Thanks for a heap of wonderful postings. Am in the agonies of closing things down at work so I can relax over the easter weekend. Will send some responses later. However, Steve, I gaped when you said the Sinding violin concerto has been recorded. Please tell me more. Also, you said Hyperion has recorded the Moszkowski violin concerto. Please give details. Is it out already? A superb work. What is it paired with? The Coleridge-Taylor violin concerto has also just been released on the Avies label (paired with Dvorak). Am poised for your glad tidings, Steve. You are right, John. A lot of the pieces listed as 'furtive pleasures' are really fine music. The thread is a bit tongue in cheek, of course. That is great - but it has been and remains a really good learning mechanism. regards to all Peter Ps. Fernando, I mentioned Offenbach's 'Gendarmes Duet' in one posting. One Australian Rules football team has used it for a club song. I refuse to discuss the words - the conceit is unbearable and the team tried to poison the beer of an enemy club. The Neu Hicksburg club song is the worst of the lot. Bad tune and the words are horrendous - all about 'eagles flying high...' Imagine.
Steve Benson   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Again, not a "furtive" pleasure ( though, point taken, the phrase is at least a bit ironic,)I have been listening to Rubinsteins Eroic aFantasy. Wow! I actually think it is a genuinely worthwhile piece(pace others' opinions of Rubinstein). It starts with a joyful striding theme, but is full of sadness(a beautiful melancholy string and clarinets theme)generally, and buids up to a scary dissonant climax, where you think the heroic theme is coming back in all its triumphant glory, but the music dissolves in discord and an effective gong note, leading to a poignant funeral march, which yet has glimmers of hope/?resignation in a contrasting, and again beautiful, string melody. however, it finishes on two brief, bleak quiet chords. This, to me , is not bombast/empty rhetoric buta soul journey through life's glories and(primarily, in this case) vicissitudes.Its worlds away from the camp extravagance of the PC no. 1! I also have listened to Raff's "Symphony 1". Though I have seen postings in favour of it, there has been a lot of negative stuff re its prolixity. I agree, the 4th movt. is a bit formless, inconsequential and bombastic, but the third movt is glorious, with another of Raffs poignant, haunting melodies(not quite as good as the PC slow movt!); and, with strange parallels to the Eroica Fantasy, the last movt starts with a funeral march, which transforms into hope gradually: a hard-won struggle. The ending is just on the cusp of glorious and camp rodomontade, but its on the right side, to me; and the repeated brass figures have the stateliness and repetitive(in a non-pejorative sense)grandeur of Bruckner. Not are the first movt or scherzo bad, with attractive themes. I think the Rhenish Phil is under-recorded and slightly under-powered, but its understatement gives a restrained dignity.So there you are. Peter, Sindings violin conc is on rare Recorded editions, LP, but MAY be on cd. I think, b ut not sure, have seen the LP on some "LP for sale" sites on Google. The violinist is Hugh Bean. The Moszkowski VC IS out-sighted in HMV Liverpool uk, where I live, coupled with a ballade for violin and orchestra by Moszkowski and Karlowicz'VC(dont know this). Mind you, it was £16(Hyperion). Oh go on, then, some furtive pleasures: 1. Eric Coates marches(available on Naxos!) for a combination of zaniness and poignant, Elgarian melodies. There is a strange, paradoxical sad joy in them. 2. Rheinbergers Organ concerti, one of which has a tune which starts with the same 6 notes as the "Nimrod" variation-the answer to the "enigma"??!!Otherwise full of majesty and silly overthetopness(again, a fine line!!) 3.Most things by Leroy Anderson. I know am setting myself up her, but hey, chaps, be gentle with me, I DO realise this isnt Beethoven (or Raff, for that matter). But again, there's a vigour AND sadness, which he manages to convey, at the same time. Take care. thanks for everyone's exciting thoughts. Steve
Jamie   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: I would like to take exception to Steve listing the Rheinberger organ concertos as a "furtive" pleasure. They are both beautiful with memorable melodies in each movement. The second theme of the first movement of #2 is the one that Steve referred to. Actually, the melody has only the first three notes in common with the "Nimrod" theme, then follows a much more adventurous harmonic path. The tonality is the same, though (Eb major). As it was composed in 1894, I don't think it was the answer to the Enigma (which was written in 1899) unless Rheinberger was unusually prescient.
Steve Benson   07/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Please dont take exception, Jamie! I too love the Rheinberger concerti, and think they have memorable and beautiful melodies. I was only joining in with the self-professed semi-ironic nature of the thread! Speaking only for myself, I like the "overthetop" nature of pieces like this, AS WELL AS their beauty. To me, they are both inter-related, i.e. grand but genuine styles dont cancel out, but enhance, the beauty of a piece. "Silly" was probably a bit out of order! That is the thing with these unfairly neglected works; we, totally rightly, defend them against any charges of bathos or false grandeur. But, to me, these types of words all have negative connotations put on them by society(in particular the musical establishment with its "canon" of "greatness")-one person's "bathos" is another's effective understatement; one person's "overthetop" is another's "grandeur". As is obvious, I have mixed feelings re some of these Romantic period pieces, but overall I love them and view with great affection what some would call their "excesses" and others their strengths.Thats the trouble with "furtive"-it suggests something to hide! Perhaps i have a bit of self-oppression in labelling pieces like Coates, anderson and rheinberger as "furtive pleasures", but, as I say, I was, to some degree joining in the irony and self-deprecation! And, you will see, from my praise of Rubenstein's Eroica and raff's Symphony No.1, I can recognise an under-appreciated musical work.No hard feelings, I hope! Steve.
peter conole   08/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Thanks for the news, Steve. The Rheinberger organ concertos are superb. Have two perfomances of each. The number one has to be my favourite because of the 'heroic' opening. On romantic organ cocnertos (there are a few) more later. Agree they are not furtive pleasures. But will be a sport and throw in two more despite desperate time pressures: (1)Addinsell's Warsaw Concerto (2)Leroy Anderson's piano concerto Yes, lets not forget that we are being just a bit self-deprecatory with the thread. And our postings are, I suspect, revealing deep affection for the works of that much-lamented musical era. regards peter conole
Steve Benson   08/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: thanks, Peter.Leroy Anderson's Piano concerto. Wow! There's a work and a half. Again, its not the Emperor concerto but its genuinely moving and joyful (I had the opening theme on my answerphone; there's self-deprecatingness in action!) Was it you who asked re Marschner's "Das Vampyr"?It is-or was, fairly recently- available complete-on cd set("Capriccio" 60083); it is very Weberian in its early Romantic musical and dramatic gestures, but, I think, quite exciting in parts, with a particuarly stimulating stretta to the ACT 1 finale. take care, Steve
Jonathan 09/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Hi Steve, I wondered if you were aware that you can get Hyperion recordings for about £10 from MDT classics in Derby? I gave up buying Classical CDs from high street retailers years ago as MDT will find more a less anything. There website is easy to find and navigate too. Gottschalk is a "Furtive musical pleasure" for me - especially the grand fantasy on the Brazilian national anthem. Scharwenka is excellent - all the piano pieces formerly on Collins (now on Helios) are consistently good, the Violin concerto (I intend to buy Tasmin Little's Hyperion recording at some point) is excellent (someone else recorded it years ago and I taped it off the radio). I also really like all of the piano concertos, especially nos. 2 and 4. Incidentally, Mark, if you're here, is the Sterling symphony CD available in England yet - MDT say they don't have a release date yet. I'm warming to Rubinstein - I've had all the Marco Polo Piano concerto recordings for years and have given them an infrequent listen (except no.4 - I have the score too) but because of this thread, my fiancee and I put on Rubinstein's 1st on over dinner the other night. It's not too bad although it is over the top! I'll have to get to know the others better I think. The symphonies are another project for me to get to know. Again, I've had those CDs for years and not listened very often. Rheinberger, hmm. We have a CD of one of his masses coupled with some choral works by Liszt, all very good stuff. I've played the 4th Piano sonata - it is a strange piece, more of a fantasia in 4 parts than an integrated sonata. I haven't heard any more of his music. I agree about Moszkowski being ignored, perhaps someone will do a complete piano music recording one day! Oh well, Happy Easter to you all! Best regards, Jonathan
peter conole   10/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Am sneaking in a short 'furtive' response re 'furtive musical pleasures' in between the chaos of a nice but hot Easter weekend. A very happy Easter to everyone. And the postings over the last week are a joyful and informative gift. My warm appreciation to all. Good to read someone else has dared to raise the subject of Rubinstein's piano concerto No.1. I agree with the criticisms, but also the praise. The pure innocence of the work has great appeal for me. Jonathan, the same applies to another 'secret vice' -Henryk Melcer's piano concerto no.1. The composer must have burst a blood vessel or two over that one. Steve, I have to confess that this thread started somewhere in the bottom lobe of my brain. Fernando had the courage to start it. I also confess that it was yours truly who raised the subject of Marschner's opera 'The Vampire'. I want to add that one and 'Hans Heiling' to my 'personal property' list when the Joachim Raff Scoiety takes over the musical world. Have big plans for productions of 'over the top' romantic operas, even if the genre is not really my field. Steve, you must be the only other person in the universe to admire Leroy Anderson's piano concerto. Here is another 'one of those' for you. Canadian composer Healey Willans - piano concerto in c minor. Rachmaninov in a red coat. Pianistic pleasures, fine orchestration and melodies. Sweeping vistas of prairies and and a touch of introspective tundra. Am 100% sure you uncovered that one eons ago. A very recent arrival - Bartolomeo Campagnoli's violon concerto in b flat. Composed about 1820 - a 'cusp work' in every sense, between late classical and early romantic. The opening orchestral tuti say a lot. Very italianate and not a dull moment. You mentioned 3 A-class violin concertos a few days ago. Raff brought out both of his in the 1870's - another outstanding decade for violin concertos, as with those for the piano. A lot to chat about. The Hyperion Moszkowski violin concerto is paired with the Karlowicz. Will be fun comparing notes. No luck re the Sinding concerto - yet. regards Peter
John Boyer   10/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Scharwenka wrote a violin concerto? Recorded by Hyperion? Please, send more details because this is news to me.
peter conole   11/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Jonathan Likewise from this direction. A Scharwenka violin concerto? With Tasman little as soloist and recorded on the Hyperion label? Is that right? Could it be that you know of a planned Hyperion release? And you mentioned an earlier recording of such a work by someone else years ago, one you recorded off radio. Would be great if you or anyone else could offer info on these issues. Steve You mentioned the 'Fardink LP' performance of Rubinstein's piano concerto no.1 Any other details? Very interesting piece of info. Another couple of 'furtive pleasures' in between easter festivities: (1) Rimsky-Korsakov's Russian Easter Overture (2)Mendelssohns's Christmas oratorio 'Vom Himmel Hoch' (3)Hubert Bath's 'Cornish Rhapsody' regards Peter Conole
Jonathan 11/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Hi Peter and John, I'm afraid I got that wrong - I meant Moszkowski's violin concerto on Hyperion, my sincerest apologies for any confusion I may have caused (it was a long week!). The earlier recording I mentioned was also of the Moszkowski Op.30 - I recorded it in early June of 1994 but forgot to write down the soloist or orchestra. It may have been a live performance and incidentally, it clocks in at 29' or thereabouts (don't know how that compares to Tasmin Little's recording). I have been trying to compile a complete list of Scharwenka's (and also Moszkowski's) works but I still have gaps. There seems very little information even using the internet. I have most of it but am still missing pieces. Anyone know of where I may be able to trace missing opus numbers? I'll have to look out for the Henryk Melcer's piano concerto no.1, he's not someone I have heard of before! Incidentally, I bought Sindings symphonies yesterday - we've only listened to the first so far but it is excellent! Happy Easter to everyone and Good listening. Regards, Jonathan
peter conole   12/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Jonathan Bless you for clearing that one up. Mark dropped the news a few postings ago that the Melcer piano concertos are about to be given the royal treatment by Hyperion. No 1.was recorded with all due passion and brio by Mr Ponti some years ago on an Olympia disc. Along with the Raff cello concertos (and other forgotten Raff works) about to be tackled by the Tudor label, those piano concertos could be the musical treat of 2004. Champagne and/or sedatives may be needed in Melcer's case. Glad you liked the Sinding 1st symphony. If the gods are kind, may have some news re his violin concerto in the near future. Took note of the Scharwenka and Moszkowski comments. The Moszkowski violin concerto (coupled with one by Godard) was released by the Koch Schwann label in 2000. (no. 3-1367-2). regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   13/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Friends: I am happy to come back to this Forum after the Easter Holyday. Did you have a good Holiday? I was too busy fishing and I only listened to the Fibich Symphonies 2 & 3 yesterday evening when I came back home. Many thanks for your expert opinions ans thoughts. I am glad to hear Steven also likes the Rubinstein´s "Eroica Fantasy". You´re right, the strings and clarinet theme is so melanchonious and so russian. This tone poem makes me think about a cossacks against tartars movie soundtrack. Another good Rubinstein´s tone poem is "Don Quixote". Do you know it? We told about it in this Forum a few months ago. Talking about Rubinstein I would confess you I like his 1st. Symphony although is so mendelssohnian. Its slow movement is really inspired on the "Italian Pilgrims" theme from the Mendelssohn´s 4th. "Italian". This Symphony is historically important: It was the first symphony wrote and performed in Russia from a Russian Composer. I am afraid that Mijail Glinka never wrote any Symphony. Is it true? Well it´s time to add more "furtive musical pleasures" to the list: - Tchaikovsky´s "Solennel March". Very martial includes again the Russian anthem as the "Slavonic March" and the "1812 Overture". - Rubinstein´s "Melody in F". It´s delightful. During the 19th. Century It was arranged for Cello and Piano, small orchestra, full orchesta, voice and piano, military band, etc. - Vivaldi´s "The Spring, fist movement" from the "Four Seasons". It´s one fronm the commercial spot maker favorites. - Nielsen 5th. 1st. movement. I remember during the 1st. Persic Gulf war (1.991), was the musical synthony of the Spanish TV war schedules. All the best to all friends! Greetings from Raffcelona! Fernando.
peter conole   14/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando Glad to hear you enjoyed your easter break. Just a quick response from me - am overcommitted at work till the weekend. The easter was not-so-good. Am in grief because Neu Hicksburg lost by one kick (in the last minutes of the game) to the disgusting Sud-Essen team. They bribed the umpire and used cavalry sabres. I have listened to all of the Scharwenka piano concertos. I have to agree, for the most part, with Jamies analysis in his 7 April. They are all masterpieces, but very varied in approach. Individual concertos by other composers possibly reach greater heights than Scharwenka works, but for sheer consistency and quality, they seem to me to be the most impressive set of the high/late romantic era. A few more 'furtive' musical pleasures: (1) The final scene of Giordano's opera 'Andrea Chenier'. (2) Saint Saens - 'Marche militaire' (3) Vaughan Williams - his great setting for the hymn 'For all the saints': must be with brass band and congregational choir, not Kings college, etc. (4) Beethoven - Bagatelle in a minor 'Fur Elise' (5) Purcell - witches coven scene and sailor's chorus from 'Dido and Aeneas' (6) Ippolitov-Ivanov - Procession of the Sardar from 'Caucasian Sketches' (7) Shostakovich - March of the Soviet Police (not a joke; he did compose one). A question for John. You mentioned having heard a bad taste work called the 'Yellow River Concerto'. Will avoid it while I have the strength. My question relates to a work of Shostakovich. About 5 years ago a mate played me an old LP with a cantata on it called something like 'Ode to Josef Stalin, Glorious Saviour of the Motherland'. Am not sure the title is correct. Music was quite appealing, the words nauseating. A remarkable tribute to a fearsome mass murderer. Would be grateful if you or anybody else could shed light on the exact work. regards Peter Conole
FERNANDO OLIVA   14/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Peter: It sounds like the Australian foot-ball is an sport only for brave men. The really dangerous people from our soccer (european foot-ball) are the hooligans. There are much skin-head people with fascist ideology among the hooligan gangs. I remember the Johann Strauss Sr. "Radetzky March" was dedicated to the Imperial General Radeztky, the man who massacred much Hungarian patriots in 1848. Today, I would tell you about mine possible "Musical Sins". I confess you (and the Forum friends), perhaps with shame at times that... - I never liked the Tchaikovsky´s "Serenade for Strings" - I still enjoy as a children with a new pair of shoes listening to the Schubert´s "Trout" Quintet. - I like the Raff´s "Fatherland" Symphony - I never liked Stravinsky - I like very much the Mendelssohn´s "Italian" Symphony but the finale "Saltarello presto" makes me feel not happy. - I am fascinate for the Rubinstein´s final movement of his 3rd. Symphony - I still play often the Tchaikovsky´s "1.812 Overture" - I prefer the Schumann´s chamber music than the Beethoven one. - The Beethoven´s Violin Concerto leaves me often cold - I enjoy listening to the Wagner´s "Nüremberg Mastersingers Overture" although it was the "Führer´s favorite". - I have listened the boring Rubinstein´s "Fantasy Op. 77" several times while I was busy tying flies. Am I Guilty? Are my Musical Culture too deficient? Well, I am looking forward your answers and your...absolution. Kind regards from Raffcelona, Fernando.
peter conole   14/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando I have asked Father o'Brien of St Genevieve's Church do grant you absolution. After this posting, you will give me up as a lost soul. Please light candles for me in a Raffcelona cathedral. It is kind of you to say brave men play Australian football. That is not quite true. The only brave, noble, skilful, handsome, pure and moral players are those of Neu Hicksburg. All the other 15 major teams consist of brutes and savages, all of doubtful gender. Their coaches and managers look like rejects from various mafia and yakuza gangs. Even the Fuhrer would have been shocked by them. Excuse me for that. Am still bitter over the lost match. Am now desperate. Consider these furtive pleasures and admissions: (1) Agree about serenade for strings, and the Beethoven violin concerto (2) Agree about the 'Mastersingers' overture. have already confessed to 'Rienzi'. I also like the 'Flying Dutchman' overture. (3) agree about 'Trout Quintet' and Schumann's chamber music (4) Love the Mendelssohn 'Scottish Symphony' and the Hebrides overture (5) Now the bad bits start, first, Pente's 1885 effort at a Nardini-style violin concerto. Really like it. (6) Some Prussian military marches (this is really shameless), especially Henrion's 'Fehrbelliner Reitermarsch', Frederick the Great's 'Hohenfriedberger Marsch' and Piefke's march 'Prussia's Glory' (7) Viennese salon music,in small doses. For example, Ivanovici's 'Donauwellen waltz' and Schrammel's 'Wein bleibt Wien' march. Also Suppe's 'Titania' waltz. (8) Some Sousa marches, but not 'The Stars and Stripes Forever'. Was going to mention some Victorian parlour ballads - the type liked by Mark - but we have already gone too far. One more - the intermezzo from Giordano's 'Fedora'. regards Peter
peter conole   14/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando I have asked Father o'Brien of St Genevieve's Church do grant you absolution. After this posting, you will give me up as a lost soul. Please light candles for me in a Raffcelona cathedral. It is kind of you to say brave men play Australian football. That is not quite true. The only brave, noble, skilful, handsome, pure and moral players are those of Neu Hicksburg. All the other 15 major teams consist of brutes and savages, all of doubtful gender. Their coaches and managers look like rejects from various mafia and yakuza gangs. Even the Fuhrer would have been shocked by them. Excuse me for that. Am still bitter over the lost match. Am now desperate. Consider these furtive pleasures and admissions: (1) Agree about serenade for strings, and the Beethoven violin concerto (2) Agree about the 'Mastersingers' overture. have already confessed to 'Rienzi'. I also like the 'Flying Dutchman' overture. (3) agree about 'Trout Quintet' and Schumann's chamber music (4) Love the Mendelssohn 'Scottish Symphony' and the Hebrides overture (5) Now the bad bits start, first, Pente's 1885 effort at a Nardini-style violin concerto. Really like it. (6) Some Prussian military marches (this is really shameless), especially Henrion's 'Fehrbelliner Reitermarsch', Frederick the Great's 'Hohenfriedberger Marsch' and Piefke's march 'Prussia's Glory' (7) Viennese salon music,in small doses. For example, Ivanovici's 'Donauwellen waltz' and Schrammel's 'Wein bleibt Wien' march. Also Suppe's 'Titania' waltz. (8) Some Sousa marches, but not 'The Stars and Stripes Forever'. Was going to mention some Victorian parlour ballads - the type liked by Mark - but we have already gone too far. One more - the intermezzo from Giordano's 'Fedora'. regards Peter
Steve Benson   15/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Everyone, and Peter, in particular! 1.Sinding is the Violin concerto No 1 ("0p.45, A minor", handwritten on sleeve), c/w Godard-Concero Romantique. Its a "Rare Recorded Editions"LP, a semi-amatuer label, but with beautiful standard sleeves, who did a lot of early recordings of Field with a few other Romantic period composers. Collectors items indeed, but probably virtuallly valueless. Not that that matters.Hugh Bean is the soloist. The recording is dim but serviceable. No. is (S)RRE 135.I found a match on Copernic search Agent, none on Google. However, if you email me, Peter, on "Stev_arts@yahoo.co.uk" I can give you more info. 2.Michael Fardink's recording of Rubinstein PC 1 is on "orion Master Recordings Inc" ORS 79347. Possibly also on UK version on Ember Classics. Orion and Ember also did LP version of Rubinstein PC 3,c/w Kabalevsky's lovely, and exuberant "Youth" Concerto on ORS 74149(cassette OC-609). these labels did a few Romantic items, and "Orion Master RecordingsInc"(exactly sic, because there's another Orion!)still issue limited edition cds and have a website; as,as I'm sure you know, do Genesis. I was very lucky to acquire a whole of one, and part of another, obscure LP collection, which contained much very unusual and delightful Romantic stuff, often on weird labels. Hope this answers your questions-in not too geekily a fashion!!Not that theres anything wriong in being a geek!!Lets bring geekdom out of the closet! Its good talking to people who have such amazingly aventurous musical tastes. Finally, a couple of "naughty" musical pleasures-Adiemus' version of "Arrival of the Queen of Sheba", complete with African drums; and Weinbergers "Schwanda the Bagpiper" Polka therefrom, though its genuinely lovely too, as is the rest of the opera that i have heard. Oh well, probably in trouble for sacrilege!! Best wishes Steve
Steve Benson   15/4/2004	Subject: RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES Message: Sorry, forgot to write that listened to "Im Walde"-the slow movement made me cry!Beautiful! Similarly, Stavenhagen PC no. 1-very emotional and heroic and uses cyclic form effectively, I think. Roland keller's barnstorming Vox recording. Steve
peter conole   15/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Steve Sorry about this, but I don't know the context of this message. I know you sent another just previously. However, the other postings on this thread have disappeared into the ether. Mark may be able to help. regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   15/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Peter: Please, give Father O´Brien of Sainte Genevive Church many thanks for your absolution of my musical sines. I am lightening some candles this afternoon on the Raffcelona Cathedral for your musical sines redemption. I also will light a candle for the Neu Hicksburg future wins on football matches. We have two Cathedrals in Barcelona. The Main and Elder is in Gothic style and was built in the middle-ages. We have also a second Cathedral in modernist Style, universally known as "The Holy Family". It was planned by the famous Catalonian architector Antoni Gaudi and It´s nowadays in building yet. I would like to request your expert opinion about Franz Berwald, a composer not much praised on this Forum. And here you are more sines to confess you...and the Father O´Brien (and all the Forum friends) . - I think the Bruckner´s 8th. Adagio is one of the most beautiful slow movements ever wrote. - I like the Berwald Symphonies, specially the 3rd. - I still have a pleasure shiver when I listen to the famous Mahler 5th. "Adagietto". - The best Brahms Symphony is in my opinion the 3rd. - The Schumann´s 2nd. Symphony is the model of true romantic Symphony. I think those sines are more heavies than my other light sines as staying all day speaking about fly-fishing, liking the Marx Brother´s films or reading with pleasure Stephen King´s novels. Yesterday evening I wondered the Bliss Piano concerto in Bb minor. What´s your (and/or the Forum Friends) opinion? Best wishes, Fernando.
peter conole   15/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Steve Was again all agog about the Sinding violin concerto. Have not got a response yet about a request for info about the recording. Have read the critiques. It is a must-have recording, until a major CD producer does what is right in the name of the Lord. Same with the Rubinstein recording you mentioned. Will talk later. On the subject of romantic violin concertos, we now have both of Raff's, even if No.1 is in a bowdlerised edition (Tudor label). I have access to another 15 or so from the 1870's. What a decade in music. Are we musical geeks? I think not. People who access the Joachim Raff Society forum know something that the rest of the world does not. That is, music of the forgotten 19th century masters (scores of them), is for the most part, OUT-OF-THIS-WORLD. You were very honest about the emotional impact of a Raff symphony - no.3, tears and all. Ok, here it goes, Raff did that to me 3-4 years ago. It was no single work. I just listened to some symphonies , the piano concerto, some chamber music, minor orchestral pieces. In one sitting. The total impact got to me, tear ducts and all. Quite a composer. Unique, and a man of great integrity. The last movement of Stenhammar's piano concerto no.1 also hit me very hard, in the same way, but for reasons that are harder to explain. Stavenhagen is pretty cool (excuse the expression). Have you traced down his 2nd piano concerto yet? I do not want to sound pretentious, because, believe me, I am not. But when I started to explore the music of the 19th century about 11 years ago, there was a passage from a Keats poem that struck home: 'Then I felt like some watcher of the skies when a new planet swims into his ken; Or like stout Cortez when with eagle eyes He star'd at the Pacific - and all his men Look'd at each other with a wild surmise - Silent, upon a peak Darien'. That is me, I guess, and a lot of other Joachim Raff Society folk. Some of us are splashing around in the coastal waves, but the ocean of 19th century classical music yields up its treasures rather slowly. Things will and must change. regards Peter
peter conole   15/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando I regret to say Father O'Brien is no longer with us. He had a heart attack when you confessed you liked Bruckner, Mahler and Stephen King novels. Your case has been referred to Bishop Kelly of Gross Alpenhorn. There may be an 'auto de fe'. I am safe, because I like Gounod and read the Lew Wallace novel 'Ben Hur' about two years ago. On a more serious note, you mentioned the Bliss piano concerto. A modern work, certainly, but truly wonderful. Very exciting and grand. The performance I have is by Philip Fowke, with the Royal Liverpool Pharmonic, conducted by David Atherton. Will not say more because I am pressed for time. I would also like recorded perfomance details of the Bliss violin concerto, but some mates tell me it is a little dull and unapproachable. Would appreciate some honest advice on that work. I have to agree with you on the Brahms and Schumann symphonies. Berwald is complicated. I know the criticisms, but so what? Yes, the Scandinavian music lobby tries to hold him up as a notable predecessor of the later northern masters. In truth, I think he is nothing more than another competent early 19th romantic composer. But some of his works, for me, are very pleasing. I have just received a Cd with a very interesting work - the violin concerto by Coleridge-Taylor (very fine piece). Will discuss later. Will not post any 'furtive musical pleasures' right now, but must express a minor irritation. One of the few concertante works written in the 'grand style' by an Australian composer was the viola concerto of Alfred Hill. Probably late 19th century or early 20th century. Very irritating neglect. It sounds nice on radio. Like what you said about the Barcelona cathedrals. A local writer (now in USA) named Robert Hughes wrote a huge book called 'Barcelona'. A lot about art, architecture, literature, political history and culture. He mentioned Gaudi a lot, but I would still prefer the gothic cathedral. In regard to the sad Neu Hicksburg football team, pray no more. They need mercenaries. If they lose to Altwalden-on-Odour this weekend, I will not watch another match for two years. Seriously. warm regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   16/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Steven: I am glad to hear you also like the Raff "Im Walde" Symphony. The slow movement, inspired on the wood sunset is really wonderful. I am afraid the "Dryad´s Dance" (3rd. movements) may be another "furtive musical pleasure" Are you agree with me? I am sure you know the Raff 2nd. Symphony. It´s perhaps the most easy to listen to from his symphonies, a so optimist and nice work. Its slow movement is in my opinion great, one of the best among the long Raff´s stock of good music. If you like the "woody feelings" I recommend you listen to the Glazunov´s tone poem "The Forest". Try it. I am waiting for your expert opinion. Dear Peter: I am sorry to hear about the Father O´Brien heart attack. I admit I am a sinful guy. I am listening to the Bliss Piano Concerto in B flat minor this morning at work. I premiered it at home last Tuesday and my first impression was so possitive. I only have heard previously from Bliss his "Color Symphony" and liked it. I am hoping the Neu Hicksburgs will win on this week-end match. Spain is different, and much Spanish people is much interested about the Real Madrid english soccer player Beckham loving troubles than the debates on the new Government from our Parliement. Here you are more musical sines to confess to the Bishop: - I think Beethoven is more important in the Musical History than Mozart. - I think that the Wagner´s "Tristan and Isolda" Prelude is really impressive music. - The best "chill-out" music is in my opinion the Haydn String Quartets. - (Shame!) The vaste Chopin work for Piano Solo is an unexplored territoire for me. - ... and the Franz Liszt also (more shame!) - My favorite French composer is Saint-Saëns (Is it serious, doctor?) - I whist often working or fishing the Raff Lenore´s "Marschtempo" Well, that´s my sinful list for today. I am afraid the Bishop will be so busy... I wish all friend a funny, nice and wonderful week-end. Best wishes from Raffcelona, Fernando.
peter conole   17/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando Am glad the Bliss piano concerto created a good impression. Re the 'furtive musical pleasures'; (1) Agree about the impact of Beethoven as opposed to Mozart (2) Wagner's 'Tristan and Isolde' prelude. What can I say? Have already confessed to liking the 'Rienzi' and 'Flying Dutchman' overtures. Also the 'Tannhauser' overture. (3) Have not heard one Haydn string quartet (ouch) (4) Have heard little of Chopin's and Liszt's solo piano muisc, but I adore the famous Liszt sonata. One friend has ten recordings of it. (5) Saint Saens. Have already mentioned my admiration for him in other postings. Here is a confession - I have more individual works by him then any other composer. The reason - a lot has been recorded, far more than works of dear Raff. But our composer will have his day. Do not worry too much about the Bishop, for now. He is a hard man, but is a Saint Saens admirer. I received a light penance - must listen to the Saint Saens Requiem mass op.54 and Christmas Oratorio within 7 days. And Father O'Grady, the new priest at Saint Genevieve's Church, likes Raff. Note: the Cliffe symphony on Sterling recommended by Mark is a very fine work. Another neglected master work. I listened to Raff's second symphony again some weeks ago. Think you are right - underrated and charming. Have a great weekend. regards Peter PS. The football - a mistake. Neu Hicksburg plays Brahmskirchen instead, the strongest team in the league. There is no hope. Am not surprised about the Beckham business impact in Spain. If a war broke out between several neighbouring countries here, the 'Neu Hicksburg Peasant's Herald' would mention it on page 29. The football would still be on page one.
peter conole   17/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Sent an earlier 'furtive musical' pleasures today, but another won't hurt before 'turning in'. I was really hoping the 'Ponti, piano concertos and Raff' thread would spark off some interesting discussions and exchanges of views/information on Ponti, the Raff piano concerto and similar. Would help me re research, insights and so on. This thread is great fun and helpful in many ways , but would appreciate some chat about the other. regards Peter
FERNANDO OLIVA   19/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Peter: I am glad to read the Bishop likes Saint-Saëns and the Father O´Grady is also "Rafficionado". On Saturday I had a funny after fishing trip back home listening to the Saint-Saëns 4th. Piano Concerto in the car. I fell in the temptations and did another furtive musical pleasure listening also the Raff´s "Jübel Overture". I would like request your expert opinion about the two Saint-Saëns Piano Concertos that I don´t know, the 1st. and the 3rd. And also abusing of tour amability I would request you also about Cliffe and his Symphony. Now, as fot the musical sines, I confess you now I am getting a luxurious musical sin: I am listening to the Debussy´s "Prelude a le Midi d´un Faune" now , and I am afraid that It´s a so sensual piece. And, also, I would confess you a -perhaps- serious sin: I ever dislike the Tchaikovsky´s "Pathetic" final movement. Well, to tell you the truth, my favorite Tchaikovsky´s Symphonies are the 3rd. "Polish" and the 5th. Is it serious? Did the Neu Hicksburg win the strongest Brahmskirchen team? Have a nice and funny day... and don´t forget to do the daily Bishop´s penance. Best wishes, Fernando, the Spanish musical sinful guy.
peter conole   19/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Fernando Glad you had I fine weekend, even if you later yielded to temptation...Debussy. Fernando, I listened to the Cliffe symphony as soon as it arrived, but was careful not to read the sleeve notes first. Listened to it again last night. It is superb. First movement: dramatic opening, with full orchestral forces, yielding to a very moving and melodious second subject; fine development and fireworks afterwards. Scherzo ok, but as with many symphonies, it was the least successful part for me. The 'Ballade' slow movement is heavily influenced by Wagner in one sense, especially Tristan, but so well put together, with several surprise changes of direction, and lovely melodies. The finale - first subject of the first movement quoted ,but not overbearingly, with new ideas unfolding; then a roll of drums announces a spectacular close, almost like an Anglican hymn, an ending Brahms would have been proud of. The orchestration is so rich and varied right throughout - the wind sections are given some great gifts. Cannot recommend it enough. Mark, thank you very much for drawing this work to our attention. I will listen to the Saint Saens 1st and 3rd piano concertos again, Fernando and give you an honest opinion. I wish Naxos would add them to the label's collected - also the No.5. Re Tchaikovsky - I am especially keen on symphonies 4, 5 and 6, but to be truthful all of his orchestral works are fine by me (except perhaps 'Manfred'). Wish he had written a cello conerto. More 'furtive musical pleasures'. I wish I had thought of this earlier - works written especially for films: (1) Saint Saens - music for film of 1908 called 'the Assassination of the Duke of Guise' (2) Extracts from American composer Newman's score for 'The Captain from Castile' (3) Korngold film scores - have a CD of fine extracts (4) Now for sheepish bit - score for Marx Brother's comedy 'Duck Soup'. A great satire on bad taste musicals of the 1930's: 'Hail, Hail Freedonia, land of the spree and home of the knave...' Fernando, St Genevieve answered our pleas for intercession. There was a miracle on the weekend. The valiant, pure Neu Hicksburg vanquished mighty Brahmskirchen by 3 points. I am composing a cantata to celebrate, scored for xylophone, retarded strings and village inn choir. The title is reasonably modest - 'Neu Hicksburg uber, uber alles'. Will tell Father O'Grady it was your idea. regards Peter
Steve Benson   19/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: peter,here are the details again of the sinding and Rubinstein PC no.1 again. they are the last posting of page 1 of the "furtive pleasures" thread but this is quite hard to get into! 1. Sinding. VC No.1, op. 45 A minor. c/w Godard Concerto Romantique. Hugh Bean/Beckenham Orch."Rare Recorded Editions" LP (S)RRE 135. I found no matches on Google but one on Copernic Search Agent(Basic), recommended for international searches including a rudimentary translation facility; this is someone selling it. However, I can tape it for you, together with Rubinstein PC no 1, as below. Postage would be appreciated, or perhaps a swop?? No pressure, its only an idea! 2. Rubinstein PC nO.1. Michael Fardink, RPO/Freeman. "Orion Master Recordings Inclusive"(watch out, theres another "Orion"!) ORS 79347. Possibly also UK version on Ember Classics. Orion/Ember also did LP version of rubenstein PC NO.3 c/w Kabalevskys lovely and joyful "Youth" Concerto(ORS 74149) and cassette OC-609. These Labels did a few(at least) Romantic items, and Orion still issue limited-edition CDs, and have a website; as do, as I am sure you are aware, Genesis. Feel free to email me on "Stev-arts@yahoo.co.uk"
FERNANDO OLIVA   20/4/2004	RE: ABOUT THE FURTIVE MUSICAL PLEASURES IP: Logged Message: Dear Peter, I always wonder your nice humor sense. I am sure your Neu Hicksburg Cantata for Village Inn Choir, xylophone and retarded strings will be better than the 12-tones music much praised by some criticians, and surely better than much dull modern works. I suggest you compose it in mixed style Rubinsraff (Rubinstein and Raff, half and half). Seeing Enya and his syntethizers, I also may be able to compose some work in size XXD (XX-dull). Thanks a lot in advance for your opinion about the Saint-Saëns Piano Concertos that I still don´t know. Your Cliffe´s Symphony report is so interesting. I would buy this Symphony as soon as possible. Do you know the label and other references? I agree with you about Tchaikovsky´s "Manfred". I confess you I was impressed for