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John Boyer   22/4/2004	Subject: The Sextet and Piano Quintet on MD+G Message: Did anyone else find this a disappointment? "American Record Guide" gave it a decidedly tepid review, but it was really more a reflection of the reviewer's personal taste (he does not like sextets, for example) than a valid appraisal of the music. Nonetheless, one cannot be but a little disappointed about the sextet, especially when one considers it was written at the same time as the wonderful octet and the 5th symphony. The quintet is better, but compared to the better trios, it too is lacking. Any thoughts?
John Boyer   29/4/2004	RE: The Sextet and Piano Quintet on MD+G IP: Logged Message: I take it no one bought it...
peter conole   29/4/2004	RE: The Sextet and Piano Quintet on MD+G IP: Logged Message: Hi John Yes, I did buy the CD. For the piano quintet, really -chamber music for strings only not really of major interest to me (some quartets excepted). Was in a batch of fairly recent arrivals, so I have not had a chance to listen to it. Will probably play the Raff quintet on the same evening as 2 or 3 others, just to get my bearings. The 'American Record Guide' is sometimes hard to get in this part of the world. Any major points raised in the review? Any thoughts of your own that might help? At the very least, am grateful for the recording. Would be good if MDG did same for the piano quartets. regards Peter
Luis de Orueta 30/4/2004	RE: The Sextet and Piano Quintet on MD+G IP: Logged Message: Hello John, Many years ago I was dissapointed by the Adriano Records perfomance of Raff´s piano quintet. So, to me the Villa Ensamble was quite a relief. A agree with Mark about the lack of spirit and dragging tempo, although in the Andante-quasi larghetto I am reconciled with the Villa Ensamble for leting me enjoy each note in what I call slow motion listening. In my view, this movement is constructed with the same technical ingredients used in any of the four Larghettos of the piano trios, and therefore need not be played Andante. On the other hand the opening Allegro just doesnt take off properly and here I blame the musicians. As for the Sextet, the 1st movement is as good as any written by Raff and fortunately played with conviction and style by the Ensamble. The rest of the work (not the perfomance)doesn´t live up to the standard of the 1st. movement, but I am used to that. John, to me there isn´t that much difference between works in Raff´s production. I find more difference between movements of the same work. To answer your question, no I am not dissapointed with the MD+G record, and I would recommend it to others.
John Boyer   30/4/2004	RE: The Sextet and Piano Quintet on MD+G IP: Logged Message: The ARG review appeared in the January/February issue. The reviewer immediately admitted a general aversion to all string sextets, except those of Brahms. Most he feels sound wrong and would be better heard in orchestral arrangements (a bias he has about all music: hire someone to orchestrate it, then forget the original). In addition to damning it just for being a sextet, he called it "irritating" and, I believe, "tiresome". The quintet faired better, but he compares it unfavorably to Dvorak. True, the Dvorak is better, but then very few quintets can stand comparison to it. How many great piano quintets are there? Dvorak, Schumann, Brahms, Franck. Then come a few very good quintets: Faure 1 & 2, Dohnanyi 1 & 2, Shostakovich. After this, a number of good ones: Reinecke, Rheinberger, Foote, Beach. And Raff? It's OK, but...
John Boyer   30/4/2004	RE: The Sextet and Piano Quintet on MD+G IP: Logged Message: I should clarify that I don't think the Sextet is bad, and I especially don't agree with the ARG reviewer's assessment. It's just that compared to the delightful Octet and the famous 5th Symphony, both composed at about the same time, the Sextet is something of a let down. The same goes for the Quintet. It's not bad, but compared to the 2nd Trio, composed shortly after, it's also rather drab.
Mark   01/5/2004	RE: The Sextet and Piano Quintet on MD+G IP: Logged Message: Of course, so often these things come down to external associations and personal taste, but I have to take warm-hearted issue with both Luis and John - a daunting prospect, if ever there was one! I won't repeat here my view of the MDG recording of the Quintet and Sextet - that's at www.raff.org/review24.htm if any wants to read it. I'd be interested to know, Luis, why you are so negative about Adriano's old LP recording of the Quintet? Admittedly the playing is sometimes course and the ensemble shaky at times, but to me there is a vivacity and spontaneity about it that quite brings the music to life. By comparison, the smooth and professional MDG team just give us a listless run through. Anyone judging the Quintet on the basis of that recording could with some justice describe the work, as John did, as "drab". It's the interpretation, John, not the music. I must also speak up for the Sextet. To my ear at least, the final three movements share a lightness of touch and brevity of utterance which put them on a higher plane than anything in the Octet, if not on a par with Raff's level of inspiration in Lenore. It isn't as sweet or tuneful a work as the trios, but my word it is a witty one. I'll admit that the extra-musical associations for my first hearings of both pieces (separated though they are by almost 20 years) are particularly happy ones but I don't think that they blind me to the value of these pieces. Cheers,
peter conole   03/5/2004	RE: The Sextet and Piano Quintet on MD+G IP: Logged Message: Listened to the Raff piano quintet over the weekend, with three others written in the 1860's to keep it company. They were by Brahms, Reinecke and Sgambati (No.1). The Brahms work is an acknowleged and much recorded masterpiece. The other are all fairly recent arrivals as far as my listening privileges are concerned. Leaving aside the Brahms work, the others ae all worthy efforts. The Reinecke quintet (especially first two movements) is very fine, with some striking moments, my own favourite being a 'high drama' outburst in one of the variations in the second movement. The Sgambati quintent also impresses, although there are some sections were the composer (for me) overstays his welcome just a little. The Raff quintet did things for me re the pleasure factor. A lot of melodic ideas and the opening seemed fairly brash (not in perjorative sense). I rather liked the way he brought in what sounded like 'antique' musical phraseology in the second subject of the 4th movement, and did more with it as the work 'scrambled' to a close. The Raff work then, for me, passes the 'acid tests'. First, it was a real pleasure as a musical experience. Second, it had themes and passages that linger in the memory. Thirdly, it will get additional - but carefully spaced - listening time. I take the point about the probability that the ensemble gave the work no more than a workmanlike but 'listless' performance. Guess the quality of performance issue will always be a factor when some forgotten 19th century chamber piece is brought back to life. I found a very interesting and amusing quote about chamber music from music critic Edwin Evans (died 1945) which is VERY relevant to a lot of the postings on a number of threads and to a broader issue - the definite but glacial pace revival of the works of Raff and his contemporaries: " It would be far easier in the present state of musical taste to revive Boccherini than Raff. Whether the reason is the same as that which makes the feminine fashions of a few year back appear frumpish, whereas those of half a century ago have become picturesque, is difficult to say. It may be [personal comment - here it comes] that in the twenty-first century musicians will delve as industriously among neglected music of the nineteenth as those of the twentieth delve in the eighteenth." regards Peter